Navicular, Laminitis, Diarrhea and Scratches – Oh my!

[Curtismum5]

Hello everyone,

My name is Danielle and from the title of this post, obviously I have my hands full!  First let me start by saying I am so glad to have found this site!  When I was a little girl everyone who was anyone had shoes on their horses, fed grain and alfalfa in high hanging feeders, stalled their horses in pipe corrals and on occasion let them run in an arena.   This is how I was taught it was correct to keep and feed a horse.  However, growing up we couldn’t afford these types of things for our horses so they went barefoot, stayed together in one large pasture that covered a few acres, ate bermuda and oat hay right off the ground level and were given plain straight oats on occasion.  When I became an adult and had my own horses, my first intention was to keep and feed them as I was taught – the way everyone I knew growing up had, for the simple fact that it was “keeping up with the Jones” so to say.  Then, after much research (and often against farriers and vets recommendations) I began to learn that the way we kept and fed our horses when I was little was so much closer to how they should be.  It’s no wonder our horses never coliced, foundered, or took a lame step and why still today my mother’s near 30 year old Thoroughbred is still as full of life as he was as a two year old!  

My passion for horses was never outgrown and so when my daughter turned 11 last year, we gifted her with a paint pony, Classy, and it has grown from there.  Today, we have 5 mares in our pasture – and as the title suggests, some of which have certain things going on with them.  Now, where do I start?  

Mel is my 9 year old paint.  I came across her last summer and instantly fell in love – there was a catch of course!  She was stalled because her hooves were sore.  The current owners didn’t want to do anything with her, and just wanted to trade her off.  I had her vet checked and the vet said she was about a 1 out of a 4 on a lameness scale, possible navicular, and just to forget about her, she would probably be a broodmare and that he saw many broodmares in pain and discomfort daily and they were fine in that condition.  Ummmmm – not going to happen!   Mel was on a trailer and on her way to me within the next day or so.  My vet examined her upon her arrival and suggested shoes, so that’s what we did (and I continued to research other methods of treatment, shod vs. barefoot, etc.).  Mel didn’t seem to be getting any worse, but she wasn’t getting any better either.   After much research I opted to have her shoes pulled and found a certified barefoot farrier.  She has only had one trim with him so far, and the efforts are directed towards having her walk heel first (currently she is toe first).  Mel is a wonderful, sweet, beautiful girl and I am hopeful that we are finally on a road to recovery for her.  I have read the posts here on navicular horses and it assures me that we did the right thing by giving her a chance for something more than being a broodmare.  

Snowy is a WelshX pony that we saved from going to auction.  She came to us loaded with thrush, unable to digest hay and was riddled with diarrhea.  Our vet suggested we switch her to cubes (preferably grass).  In my area I can only find timothy/alfalfa and so we went that direction.  Her diarrhea cleared up almost instantly!  Then with the recommendation of our barefoot farrier we began to slow feed all of our horses (we feed grass hay – I just found a local supplier of teff hay so we will be switching to that) and took them off grain – he also suggested we take Snowy off the cubes because of the sugar content from the alfalfa, soon enough though, the diarrhea returned.  I am at a loss as to what to do for her.  I almost feel like I need to pick my battles……….I searched the forums here but didn’t come across any that were similar.  I am eager to hear everyones thoughts!  She has also developed a gunky eye recently……..not sure if it’s related but wanted to put it out there.  

Then there is Suzie – a rescue who was allowed to founder time and time again.  She came to us in the winter when the grass was gone, so I am nervous as to how she will be when the grass spouts (and how she should be kept at that point).  She eats only grass hay (she has signs of heaves so I will be soaking it and then slow feeding it to her after reading about the soaking of hay on this forum) she receives vitamin supplements (as do all of the horses), and LamineX.  She is kept out with our other mares, and gets around just fine.  Her hooves where in a state, but are on the way to recovery if we can hopefully prevent her from foundering again.  

Lastly, there is my husband’s 14 year old Clydesdale, Raven.  She seems to have scratches as she stomps and chews at her lower legs regularly and sores appear.  Our vet said it was hereditary and to leave it alone, but I am interested to hear the thoughts from the members here.  I think we should be treating it, but with what and how?  There are so many opinions on cutting her feathers vs. leaving them long – I’m a little lost………..

I’m sorry this post is so long.  I feel as though we’ve been sitting here ideal with our horses not really doing them any good and what we’ve been told and taught by many hasn’t been in their best interest.  Coming across this site where I can actually talk to others about what we’ve been experiencing and the answer is not medicate, medicate, shoe, shoe, mask, mask, and mask has been very exciting for me.  I look forward to learning so much from everyone here!  

 
-   Danielle

[Linda Davenport]

Hi, Danielle . . . and WELCOME!!!!!

Hmmmm!  Hmmmm!  Hmmmmm!!!  You do have your hands full -- THAT'S FOR SURE!!!!  Wow, you must have a heart as big as all outdoors!!!!  It has been said, on this forum, that God gives us the creatures WE NEED -- well, you have surely been BLESSED!!!!

First of all, I have to say, that there are many of us who have come to the realization that "less is more" as far as feeding and living environment for our beloved four-legged family members.  They sure do fare so much better living as nature intended -- BY FAR!!!!

You will find eons of experience here, from many different countries too, and all of us madly in love with these most incredible creatures, the equine!!! 

Angela, our forum moderator, will be posting ASAP, I'm sure; and then we have our most beloved Dr. T, who regularly checks in and gives us his words of wisdom and recommendations -- God Bless him!!!  You will find that not only is this forum a great resource for finding your way back to health for all of your horses, but you will find incredible support from the forum and all the wonderful people at FLOTH and from Dr. Thomas -- in my experience, no one can touch the support you're given from such a wonderful staff!!!

Depending on your financial situation, based on my own experience (see "Idaho Rusty" on EMS thread) THE BEST place to start is with a blood panel so that Dr. T can tell you exactly what's going on with your horses, individually.  There isn't a vet out there that can compare in giving you what you need to know and how to go about making it better!!!!

Mel surely will get better with a proper diet and proper trimming and proper lifestyle, BUT, she may have other issues lurking.  Time will tell!

Snowy would be, I would guess, a great candidate for Dr. Thomas' Nourish Digestion formula.  One of my horses (I have four) had chronic runny poops for most of her life.  She was on ND for a number of months and has been great ever since.  I did have a blood panel done and analyzed by Dr. T, and the results did show that she was not digesting her food properly.  Have you also tried pre-and pro-biotics?

As for Suzie, if she's EMS (Equine Metabolic Syndrome), she'll have relapses as she progresses down that EMS disease curve.  I spent three years trying to find a "fix" for my EMS/laminitic Rusty before finding FLOTH, and there's been no turning back since.  He was one sick puppy before I got here, but he's doing just fabulous, and it's four years later!

As for Raven, there's a wonderful formula that Dr. T's created for skin issues.  Angela will give you lots more information.  As for your vet's comments -- hogwash!!!!!  Ugh!!!  That's just awful -- just ignore it!!!  What can I say!!!!

I know that Angela will have tons of information for you when she posts, so hang in there -- there's LOTS of help on the way.  All of us here on this forum and bent on fixing all the horses we can -- that's our mission -- and it is absolutely possible -- we all believe in the absolute power of the body to heal itself when "ASSISTED" in the right way, without "anti" body protocols that are normally recommended!

Please keep posting and keep us all up to date on how you're doing!!!!

God Bless!
Linda D

[Curtismum5]

Thank you , Linda!

Yes, I am coming to find that less is more and that the horses are so much better in their natural state!  I only wish we could go back 20+ years with this information - Oh the grief my mother received for keeping her heard out and barefoot!

I haven't had their bloodwork done; it seems as though it might be a good starting point for them all.

I am amazed - absolutely amazed - to read that you've successfully kept Rusty out in pasture without an issue!  I've been told that I will need to muzzle Suzie (if she is out) or even keep her stalled  .  This seems to be 110% opposite from your experience - I would love to hear more! 

Thank you again, Linda!

 - Danielle

[Curtismum5]

I just wanted to add after looking around on FLOTH more and coming across the article "The Easy Keeper: Myth and Dangers", and seeing the picture of the fatty deposit on the horses rump - I think Mel has this! 

I need to find out how to post a picture to show you......if you look closely at my profile picture of Mel you can see what I think is the deposit on her rump.  I will try to figure out how to post a picture here though as it is hard to see. 

Linda - I think you're certainly right about having her bloodwork done! 

[Linda Davenport]

Hi, Danielle,

There was a recent post -- if I had time I'd look it up (we have to head "to town" today, which is about 100 miles away) -- about posting pix.  If you go to the main page of the forum, at the bottom you'll find a link to "recent posts," and you can look through that.  It was within the past 7 days I believe.  Would love to see pix of your loved ones!

Fortunately, we live on 95 acres of hills with scrubby vegetation, no irrigated, lush pastures!  Even in the spring Rusty does just fine on the various grasses that grow naturally around here, BUT in April, when the bulbous bluegrass starts its seedhead, I have to keep him in a muzzle, as that grass at that time is very high in sugar.  Otherwise, he's just a regular horse.  I do watch him LIKE A HAWK though, and it's gotten to where I can notice the slightest thing and know there's a problem.  I am a firm believer in heading things off at the pass. 

Have a wonderful day, and I hope to see your pix soon!!!!  Your avatar pix shows a VERY handsome/beautiful horse -- which one is that?

God Bless!
Linda D

[beachridr]

Hi Danielle,
you do have your plate full but sounds like you're definitely ahead of the class and up to it... so glad you found your way here early instead of as a last ditch effort.

Bloodwork is so important and I need to explain as I'm not sure how much you've read on the forum why having Dr.Thomas do the analysis is so important. He will catch things much earlier than what your vets will because they are relying on the high & low flags that the lab provides. That works (sort of) for serious problems but we don't want to wait for the train wreck so to speak, but we want to catch things early and get the "ship" turned around in the right direction of healing and balance before all that damage is done.  So Dr.Thomas relies on the old school method of time consuming calculations between the various test results to get an idea of what patterns are going on and how that affects your horse (my Snickers is a great example of this... I've just posted to his thread if you want to read the latest discovery/pattern that explains why he's still not quite right- I was beginning to think I was a hypochondriac, lol! here's the link, start at post  85 if your just interested in the bloodwork info    http://forloveofthehorse.com/forum/index.php?topic=205.75 )  No doubt, this is why so many horses progress forward unknowingly on the EMS progression curve to serious chronic laminitis and founder and then "suddenly" have life threatening issues like kidney failure or metabolic acidosis (had our share of those people come to us).... you don't catch those early without doing all the tests & calculations...  Once the hoof is affected, you KNOW the health issues have been going on a LONG time to so affect the circulation and health of the foot.

Here's the link to the bloodwork info.... where I live, getting good bloodwork is difficult because they send the "unusual" tests to a big lab 6 hours away... that means if they draw the blood in the morning, its not transported till late afternoon... Serum insulin tests must be spun within 3 hours to give accurate results. So finally when my horses were doing well enough to take a 6 hour haul, I took them to the big veterinary school where they were able to do all the tests there... pulled the blood and straight to  testing... So be sure to mention that need... if they can't get it done in a timely manner, perhaps consider hauling to a place where they can... others have actually been able to have the blood drawn and then transport themselves to a human lab. Its more work for Dr.Thomas, but he's able to make the conversions needed in the lab references ... he gets bloodwork from all over the world so he's learned how to deal with this and he's in constant discussion with his hematology mentor so you're getting the best of the best because they LOVE what they do.. its not just a way to make a living. No one else puts in the time like Dr.Thomas does but he's a researcher at heart- this stuff fascinates him and he's always looking for more answers and always has more questions... always thinking outside the box.... that's the only reason my Snickers is still alive (not to mention happy and full of vigor and TWERPINESS again-lol) , I'm positive!


The other thing you should do is submit a health history form on each of your horses as it gives Dr.THomas important info to go with the bloodwork
you'll find that here  
http://www.forloveofthehorse.com/support_services_form.php

and here's the bloodwork info and also sample analysis
http://www.forloveofthehorse.com/downloads/Blood_Panel_Fact_Sheet.pdf


So not having all that info, but just what you've posted here, this is my gut feeling about your horses

Mel: if navicular syndrome is all that is wrong and is a correct diagnosis... then trim is a huge part of the solution. YOu would want to use the Tendon repair solution also, but likely there is bone damage as this has been going on a while so you would need the HBR also... you've read the threads already on the forum so I don't need to say more. BUt if you get to Snickers thread, you'll see how Cheryl Henderson blew up his radiograph and was able to clearly identify the lollipops that indicate navicular damage - if you don't use the HBR and only the TR, the damaged bone will continually damage the tendon so you'll have a vicious cycle even with the best of trimming.

Snowy- I agree with Linda that ND is a great place to start while you wait for bloodwork  and the analysis to be done.  The reason she may have done better with the alfalfa is that it is higher in calcium and will reduce acidity and irritation to the stomach lining... she could be an EMS candidate which would explain the acidity problem if it exists (have you read all of Dr.Thomas' articles and listened to the webcasts?). The Liver Support Solution is always a good one to also use for a month as it will be a big help with the acidity as well as if there's difficulty in protein metabolism or any bilary obstruction  (see this thread  http://forloveofthehorse.com/forum/index.php?topic=663.0 )

Often eye discharge as well as nasal discharge are indications of a weak immune system (likely the thrush could have gotten out of hand because of that issue alone, not just poor management practices of her previous owner) associated with horses with metabolic disorders so do have the bloodwork done if you can and use the Total Immune Health for a few months also. Have you noticed any "edema"? It may look like a hay belly (remember fluids collect low with gravity) and also check on the lower legs... this is very common with EMS & malapsorption issues as its related to spleen health. Again, the ND (Nourish Digestion) is needed in that case.

I don't agree with your farrier that the big problem with alfalfa is sugar content as its usually lower in sugar but it is very rich...high in protein and that's likely the problem as well as its one of the most chemically treated forages so that alone is a huge burden on the liver let alone the repercussions to the immune & metabolic systems from all those chemicals.  I would also avoid any soy products and of course all grains. I do feed a little chia seed (we have a thread on that  if you need that info) and that is a good alternative- its great for fiber (better than psyllium for sand removal) and loaded with vitamins and minerals.

Suzie Definitely get her tested ... any time a horse has foundered more than once, its likely this horse is ready to crash because the disease process of EMS will progress with more frequent episodes of greater magnitude regardless of your management & care... so lets get that turned around by treating the root issue  .. here's the webcast you need to listen to on the EMS progression
orse.com/forum/index.php?topic=296.0On

radio interview on progression curve
 http://www.forloveofthehorse.com/real/Metabolic_Progression_Curve.mp3

article on bloodworks role in predicting laminitis
Taking the Guesswork out of Predicting Laminitis
http://www.forloveofthehorse.com/articles/taketheguesswork.php


Raven  Likely it is hereditary... meaning weak immune system and by all means DON"T leave it alone.... it will compound and get worse as the immune system struggles ( this was my Snickers... he finally crashed with a "rare" auto immune disease and it also resulted in founder & bone damage- you don't want to go there)... she needs at least the TIH, perhaps paired with the Skin solution, but I would also use the Liver SUpport Solution for a month or two... it has been instrumental in so many chronic issues, especially where there is constant  cell damage, whether to the skin or the hoof... etc...  Again, bloodwork would be really helpful, but finances are a consideration so you could begin with this and see how she does.

 Suzie is the most urgent one from what you've posted with the risk of another laminitic event which will make life very difficult in the hoof recovery as well as a need for more herbal solutions for a longer period so you want to get her treated before she crashes again.


hope that helps....  remember    "a stitch in time saves nine"... this took me a while to figure out as I'm a real tight wad and have 4 horses... but I've learned my lesson... avoid the immune crash... get these horses started as soon as you can and you may never have to learn what I have. Its been the school of hard knocks for sure!

[beachridr]

one more thought on Raven.... and why I think you should probably get her going on the TIH & Skin herbs sooner than later

we had a client whose vet diagnosed her gypsy cob (looks like a draft as far as the big feathers and mane, but only 1200 pounds) with a genetic auto immune condition common to that breed and the symptoms  start as scratches and was treated allopathically with steroid creams and sulfur ointments... don't believe they used any other forms of steroids. Dr.Thomas wasn't convinced without bloodwork to verify that it was an auto immune condition and said to begin by using the TIH & Allergic Skin Reaction solutions both 3x (every 8 hours or as close as possible)   (BTW.... the years before Snickers immune system crashed, he had issues like scratches on his lower legs which I assumed was from my use of leg wraps as all 3 had issue there... turns out all 3 had immune issues and after herbal treatment, no longer have the lower leg issues).

this was part of her description

Diagnosed Monday with Chronic Progressive Lymphedema
 She arrived from NY (England and Ireland prior) last
October.  We noticed what appeared to be scratches soon after that and
began treating.  It appeared to get better but then over these last few months
got worse.  She began to chew on her feet and stomp one back foot.

Dr.Thomas advised she use the Total Immune Health with the  Allergic Skin Reaction solution aggressively (3x day )

This is what she had to say after only a month on the herbs... and she did send before & after pics ... the swelling in the legs from the chronic sores was gone and the sores healed up- very easy to see a huge improvement and as you know, a photo doesn't give you the whole picture being one dimentional.
 

I wanted to share with you Izzy's progress so far.  It's actually pretty remarkable.....Our vet thought she was doing awesome.

ANyway, she never did have to pursue bloodwork or a special formulation for the auto immune condition as it cleared up rather quickly on just those 2 solutions. I believe she continued the herbs for a few months after the last symptoms and no doubt will start them again at any sign should they reappear but I've not heard anything more and its been since last year.

[Curtismum5]

Thank you, Angela for all of the links and information.  I am going to speak to my vets office about blood work right away - I have a feeling they are not going to like it one bit, and this is hard because in my area my vet is well known and liked - and going against them will not be looked upon very highly. Oh golly!

Also, while I was thinking about Raven, I remembered I forgot to mention that Suzie has some sort of skin issue going on as well on her legs.  Our previous farrier (not barefoot) said it was scratches and to get it treated, our vet said the season was too wet to do anything and to wait until the weather warmed.  Argh!!!! I've ordered AgSilver wash and talc from SmartPak before coming across this forum.  It sounds as though I need to treat it with the recommended herbs though - I want to get to the source and correct that rather than just treat the evergrowing symptoms. 

My vet would like to do x-rays on Mel - I think this could be beneficial.  Do you agree?  One of the things that she does (often but not always) is stand with her socked foot extended in front of her. Also,in her rear hoof she has a flare with redness. There is certainly something going on with her, and it sounds like the blood work will give me the answers I seek.  Currently, she doesn't have much heel and so my farrier wants to grow this out some.  I brought it up to him last night in an email after reading some of the posts here.  I'm going to post some of his email below to get your thoughts:

"My thoughts on heel height is that there are many variables.  Lets talk about Mel. Mel, needs more heel to not have as much pressure on the frog and the inner back structure in the hoof. Don't get me wrong she has got to get some pressure in order to get it to develop but to much can and will make her sore and go up on her toes. Attached is a pic we discussed. Notice red horizontal line and how there is no heel height as compared to frog height.The oval shows the lack of development in the back of the foot as compared to the other pic that shows another horse that is well developed.The other horse has good development and likes low heels and lots of frog pressure w/ heel first landing. Growing and getting Mels heels to stand up is our primary goal right now. One of the factors to get her heels to stand up is to pull the toe back and release the pull on the hoof (and there for the heel) during break over.
BUT...sometimes when you do that a horse will land to hard on the heel and go back up on it's toes causing the toe first landing and pull the heels forward again. It is a fine line we walk at times and can sometimes be in circles. Lets talk about living and working conditions. This is another big factor in heel height. If your horse lives and works on soft ground then heel height could be lower (not talking about Mel now) UNLESS you have deteriorated frogs and under developed digital cushion. Then the heel will need to be higher to alleviate some of the pressure from the sinking of the hoof in the ground. Head spinning yet? The bottom line is I feel our job is to read the horse and terrain and adjust accordingly. I feel there is no set rule."

I really should figure out how to post the pictures so I can attach them and you can see what he is referring to...I will do that now and post them.

Thanks,

 - Danielle

[beachridr]

download your pics to photobucket, the copy the image code and paste to your post.. when you click post, the pictures will be there when you go back and read the thread.




Some do leave a bit more heel on a navicular horse to take some tendon pressure off the bone there...  be sure the toe is aggressively backed up as the long toe is really bad for navicular conditions... but really... what Mel needs is the TR with the HBR... the TR will not only heal the tendon damage (it also gives it more elasticity-relaxing while still strengthening- read more here  http://www.forloveofthehorse.com/tendetail.php ) so its not stressing the bone) but will help restore the internal structures that are no doubt very weak and under developed and why heel first landing is painful in addition to the navicular condition and bone damage.  Its important to make sure there is no bar bridge-  build up in the collateral groove that puts pressure on the navicular area. You would be wise to send pics to Linda Mair for 2nd opinion and if she has any questions she'll discuss with her mentor Cheryl Henderson of abchoofcare... Cheryl is always who I always turn to and I'm so glad our own LInda Mair has taken on her mantle because I was swamping Cheryl with SOS requests for help-lol! .... she's AMAZING and has a heart of gold.  You'll see on Snickers thread a lot of her comments .... she easily picked out the navicular in his radiographs by blowing up the images... she has one of the largest coffin bone collections you'll find as she is always studying and doing dissections to learn more. She has a great hoof school and often Dr.Bowker comes and does presentations there... this gal is one smart cookie!

[Curtismum5]

I read about Cheryl from you post on Snickers (amazing by the way - to see him running on the beach after such an ordeal! The proof is in the pudding or horse or hoof there for sure!!!!!).  I brought her up to my farrier and he had heard of her and ABC. She sounds great and as though she is a wonderful resource - one can NEVER have too many of them I am learning!!!!!! LOL!

I think I've figured out how to post the picture. This was taken prior to the shoe being pulled.........but you can see how little heel she has compared to the other horse heel my farrier attached.







And this is Mel with what appears to be a deposit, but never seeing one other than in the article - I don't know. 



This is a bad picture of it now that I see it so big - I should get a close up of it......but it's the bump on her thigh......maybe I can circle it and repost......

[beachridr]

actually... the other horses heels are much tooo tall!!!! if you got an xray, you'd see the coffin bone not ground parrallel, where as Mel's would be much closer if not totally ground parallel. However, like I said, with a navicular horse, often they'll leave the heel a little taller but not as tall as the other horse. If you look carefully, you'll see the periople skin at the heel...it is a good indicator for the true baseline of the heel... if you measured from the hairline at the  collateral groove exit at either side of the frog and go straight down to the ground (plumbline) it should be close to 1 1/8 inch, no more than 1 1/4 inch. I made the mistake with Snickers the last few months letting his heel get a little taller and you can see how tipped on end his coffin bone is because of that small amount of too much heel! yikeeesss! I'VE LEARNED MY LESSON!!!!  Also, remember that if the heels are allowed to get too long, they will drag the heel purchase forward so that will create an underslung heel and the weight bearing will not be in line with the bony column but farther forward... this also pulls the toe forward and so goes the navicular syndrome set up...  the more underslung the heel gets, the lower it looks so people are afraid to take it down so its bearing weight where it should and the heel progressively gets more sloped & underslung... it happens FAST.

Go to www.abchoofcare.com and under "trimming help" look at  "TB underslung", "mustang hooves" (you'll see the 1 1/8 measurement of the heel there) and be sure to read "hoof print ring" which explains the "hoof print trim" and addresses the need for the correct heel height and how to determine that.  About 3/4 way down the page is where you'll find it... Cheryl has done hundreds of hoof dissections and it has reinforced these measurements for keeping a coffin bone ground parallel... she knows what she's talking about, that's for sure!

here's a collage she did that used to be on her website.. I can't find it now so I'll just post it here
you'll have to enlarge the view on your browser to really see the details.

 I'd like to see pics of the sole as well to determine if the toe is backed up adequately.

[beachridr]

Just thought I'd encourage you to also go to our "protection" board and look at a few of the threads regarding vaccinations.
http://forloveofthehorse.com/forum/index.php?board=10.0

Since all your horses seem to have issues and some more than others could be complicated with weak immune systems, a vaccination "hit" at this time would probably be enough to trigger more problems. Be sure to discuss this with Dr.THomas. My horses have immune problems and I no longer vaccinate, but use the Total Immune Health..... before I would do a very thorough vaccination program as we traveled & showed a lot... now with what I know, I wonder if this was part of pushing their immune system to a breaking point... hmmmmmm.

[Linda Davenport]

I KNOW that was Rusty's downfall!!!  When I purchased him, the former owner sent me a list of wormings and vaccines that Rusty had received that year (I bought him in December).  It took up a whole page, single spaced!  The only vaccine I have given him in the seven years I've owned him was when we moved here, I gave him and the other three horses a tetanus vaccine because our place was full of old barbed wire fencing that we took down and replaced and I was afraid they may pick up an old rusty nail.  Furthermore, any vet worth their salt SHOULD NOT vaccinate a horse with any health issues!!!!!!  

As for showing, I [sort of ] "fudged" on the application forms, if you know what I mean.  In fact, every time a vet asks me if any of my animals are vaccinated, or when I had to board my horses, I always "fudged"!  Yep, they're all vaccinated!!!!!  

God Bless!
Linda D

[beachridr]

yes... research supports that... Dr.THomas' article on the immune/laminitis link has this to say...

   Evidence of a link to immunologic hyperactivity in chronic laminitis

Researchers from Texas A&M University have conducted a well-designed study that implicates a link between routine vaccination and acute episodes of horses with chronic laminitis. Their results were quite convincing, presenting clear evidence that there is a relationship between vaccines and acute episodes brought about through changes in the immune system produced by the chronic laminitis, which then leads to a heightened sensitivity to vaccines.

The Texas A&M researchers injected chronically laminitic and healthy horses with a variety of antigens and reported immunologic ‘reactions’ at defined intervals of time. The results clearly showed that chronically laminitic horses have a much stronger peak reaction than healthy horses, characterized by an infiltration of immature neutrophils along with local inflammation, fluid buildup and vascular damage.7 The information presented in the present article gives an explanation for their results.

Conclusion – What does this all mean for your horse?

The pervasive idea that the inflammation of the laminae causes the separation during an acute episode of laminitis is explicitly disputed in this article. Rather than the inflammation being the origin of the separation, it is a secondary consequence of the inefficient responses of the innate and adaptive immune systems of laminitic horses. Laminitis, itis (inflammation) of the laminae, indeed occurs but it is the end result of a runaway cascade of events (defects in the essential leukocyte constituents following the initiation of laminae separation set off by the floodgate release of MMPs).

Understanding the participation of the immune system within the underlying mechanisms of the metabolic syndrome in horses is an important step to implementing a cure. As long as the idea persists that laminae separation initially occurs due to inflammation, the treatment strategies will follow course keeping this disease focused on the hoof. This means that each acute episode will be treated as a discreet event and the metabolic dysfunction from which they stem will not be addressed.

Treatment of the diabetic aspect of this disease is the only recovery course for these horses, especially considering that the immune system of these horses is not just inadequate but also a coordinated partner in the continuation of the underlying disease. As long as their immune system remains ineffective these horses’ glucose will remain elevated and rise, along with the risk of an acute episode, when a demand for defensive action is placed on it.

here's a direct link to the full article
http://www.forloveofthehorse.com/lamconn.php